Sophie Harflett (00:00):
Hello, and welcome back to "What Makes It GEL." I'm Sophie from the GEL Studios team, and today we're talking in-house versus agency. So joining me today, I have Stacey, who is our COO, chief operations officer. You are sort of the superwoman who keeps all of our ducks in a row, our stakeholders aligned, and sort of empowers GEL Studios to keep growing. Thank you for joining me today, Stacey.
Stacey Wilson (00:26):
Thank you for having me. Excited to chat.
Sophie Harflett (00:28):
Yeah. So in terms of sort of today's topic, we're talking in-house versus agency. My personal experience is that I've come from in-house. GEL Studios is my first sort of experience working in the agency scene. What is your experience in terms of where you've worked and in-house agency, what's?
Stacey Wilson (00:47):
It's the polar opposite to yours, by the sounds of it. So my first role was in a media agency, a large independent agency of around sort of 30 to 40 people. I actually cut my teeth in the finance team, and that must be where I got my love of spreadsheets, data and order.
Sophie Harflett (01:06):
There's a spreadsheet for everything.
Stacey Wilson (01:07):
Absolutely, there is now. And growing over the years, I just got hooked, got hooked on digital marketing, found it so, so interesting. Loved the type of people that I was working with, and I've actually only ever been in agency roles, and I'm edging over 20 years now in that space.
Sophie Harflett (01:25):
Yeah, and so you joined us from Infinity Nation. How long were you sort of with Infinity Nation before you came over to GEL?
Stacey Wilson (01:30):
I was there for nearly six years. And prior to that, yeah, 13 years at the large independent agency that I was at previously. So yeah, long stints in both places, but that has led me to actually jump around within those agencies and try out lots of different roles. So I think when we talk about this topic today, I think I can align quite well with the client view, and the pains and the challenges that I've heard over the years.
Sophie Harflett (01:59):
That makes a lot of sense. Obviously, coming from a pure sort of agency side, your whole experience is sort of dealing with clients and their frustrations, and sort of the whole point that agencies exist. So in terms of sort of in-house teams for marketing, it feels very much like those get to be the brand champions. They are sort of in-house, in the culture, but they're not sort of, they can't always be the be-all end-all of a marketing effort. What's your experience with dealing with in-house teams and how being agency, you can sort of support that?
Stacey Wilson (02:36):
Yeah, it's a great viewpoint to have, actually. I'm very fortunate that I've sat in a lot of discovery calls with potential clients, and the first thing is to understand why we're in that room and why we're having that chat to start with. And they're normally not getting something, from having either a pure in-house team, or maybe a hybrid model. So I think to summarize positives of having an in-house team, you're absolutely right. They breathe and live that culture that they're there, they are dedicated to that brand for their entire sort of working hours. That also, I think, comes with some like tunnel vision, and it can mean that you're in quite a vast role. In my experience, we have overloaded marketing managers that are jack of all trades trying to wear a lot of hats all at once. They're the go-to because they're salaried, so it's "How can we squeeze more out of this person? How can we get more value for money without having to, you know, increase our investments?" That tends to be the point, I think, when agencies are brought in because that person is either perceived to be not delivering or they want more, they're not at that cutting edge.
Sophie Harflett (03:39):
Yeah, I mean, that really sort of echoes my personal experience. I've only ever been in a team where I am the team, so I am primarily sort of experienced in sort of social media and that kind of thing. So when I've had roles where they wanted a bit more SEO or a bit more sort of web marketing, I have to be like, "I can try my best," but within my sort of current remit, you know, at the time, I didn't have the skillset to fulfill entirely what they needed. And at times I wish there had been, you know, the opportunity to upskill, or they could have brought on an agency to sort of support my work, 'cause, there was a lot of opportunity there that wasn't really being explored.
Stacey Wilson (04:25):
Yeah.
Sophie Harflett (04:25):
Yeah.
Stacey Wilson (04:25):
And I think it's just having mentorship, as well. Like when you're in a large organization where there's more people that are your people, like there's more digital marketers, it's great, like the buzz and stuff that we have here, there's experts in their fields, people can teach you stuff, or they might know somebody that could come in and have a chat with you and help expand that. I think purely brand side, I think it's difficult to have that network. Whereas I do think that certainly agency founders, SLTs, are quite well-networked. Certainly if they've been with an agency for a long period, they would've worked with people in the past that land brand side, and pick up the phone and have a chat. And I think sometimes, coming back to the point around sort of pros and cons, we're brought in, I think, because the thinking isn't being done, the newness has worn off, maybe results are stagnating, and so they're looking for outside support and thinking "How can we push on, hit that next growth milestone?"
Sophie Harflett (05:19):
Yeah, I think that also sort of ties a lot into the idea of like there being a single point of failure, as well. You know, if there's so much pressure, and they're sort of stagnating, there's sort of that single point with an in-house team where it's like, "Okay, this one thing is not working, so there needs to be a way around or through, and maybe that's with an agency team." But then on the flip side, you have agency, which is sort of your ballpark.
Stacey Wilson (05:44):
Heh.
Sophie Harflett (05:45):
But there's always that conversation around everyone has had a bad experience with an agency. I think that's something that we know a lot, especially at GEL Studios, that, we're fighting against sort of a lot of bad rep from agencies, you know, across the sector. How do you sort of feel about the sort of bad rep that agencies tend to get?
Stacey Wilson (06:10):
Like I said, 20 odd years into this, if I had a pound, if every time I sat in a meeting with a client that said, "I've had bad experience with agencies in the past." I think it's the same with any industry. There are great players out there and there are cowboys, and there are people that have really good intentions, I think, but maybe just can't fulfill what they set out to achieve, or maybe they're stretching their ability. Comes back to just having that honest chat, and it's really key, and certainly GEL Studios, I think we've got really clear ethos, we've got clear values, we know who we do great work for and we know who we won't do such great work for, and we're not afraid to have that conversation right at the outset. So managing a potential client's expectations I think is key.
Sophie Harflett (06:52):
Yeah.
Stacey Wilson (06:52):
When it comes to, "Should I hire an agency or not?" Think it's very, very personal, and it's a decision that every brand will probably go through three or four iterations of having an agency, fully in-house, or a combination of the two. And I think that's where a lot of the frustration comes, when you're having those discovery calls with prospects. They're saying, "Oh, like I've been here before. I've tried three different agencies now. I don't know what to do." Our job is to understand what worked really well, what didn't work really well, and then put something tailored together, I think, for that client.
Sophie Harflett (07:24):
Yeah, I think the level of tailoring that we do at GEL is probably what makes it sort of work.
Stacey Wilson (07:28):
GEL.
Sophie Harflett (07:28):
Yeah, it's what makes it GEL. Absolutely. Yeah, you know, we obviously tailor the team members that work on certain accounts. If we need to borrow expertise, we do that. It's a very collaborative environment. I think that's why, you know, GEL being my first agency work experience has been so incredible, 'cause I've sort of walked into perhaps, sort of one of the best agencies, you know, in the area.
Stacey Wilson (07:51):
Yeah, there's definitely something special about it, I think, and, it's having that knowledge through the only way you'll get it, is through years and years of grind and experience. But I mean, I'm sure you've heard me do it a lot in the office. I'll dig right back into my memory archives and be like, "Oh, I used to work on XYZ brand." And I think that holds a lot of credibility, even though it's not new experience, the client knowing that at some point you've crossed their path, you know their world, you understand their target customers. Even if it's not the exact team that's working on it, having that in the business, I think, is really what sings through for clients.
Sophie Harflett (08:25):
Yeah, there is a knowledge base that spans so many different sectors, especially obviously with your team from Infinity Nation coming in and sort of expanding on our sort of e-commerce side of things. It really goes to show that like, the more knowledge you can have within a team, the sort of more reassurance you can give for clients, especially for those ones that have had the bad experiences with agencies prior.
Stacey Wilson (08:46):
Yeah. And there's always stuff that you can like take and apply to a new account. So with those learnings that you might have had from, you know, a channel that worked really well, or a tactic, you take the best parts of that, and then when you've got the next client strategy, you don't take the rubbish bits forward. So, you know, ultimately we're learning and we're evolving, we're improving, and back to my favorite topic, our processes evolve all the time. And that is something that you don't get with a pure in-house team, that single point of failure thing that you mentioned earlier, you're really at risk if you lose a key person, they're unlikely to give all that information in a structured, processed handover. Agencies have to have that rigor because we're onboarding new team members. Quite often people have to learn how to do things our way. So it's really clear that it's key that that's like clearly documented, so that we do the same thing each time.
Sophie Harflett (09:37):
We've got processes, we've got scribes, we've got, you know, folders upon folders of information.
Stacey Wilson (09:43):
What I've found really refreshing since joining GEL is, the structured onboarding process for clients and them going through goal setting workshops, messaging workshops. You know, we don't just walk straight into building a website or into rolling out a marketing strategy. Everyone does some form of immersion session, I believe, like agency side, you do some sort of handover client side, but, what we do I think is really unique and it digs really deep with the clients, and I think that then gives them really quick reassurance that we were the right choice.
Sophie Harflett (10:14):
Absolutely. Now I want to segue a bit and sort of talk about some client success that we've had. Is there any sort of particular clients that you would sort of highlight as sort of an example of how sort of having an agency team can really be sort of a benefit to sort of the in-house team as well?
Stacey Wilson (10:31):
Yeah, I mean, I think, if we're talking like particular case studies, there's a couple that spring to mind. We've got one current GEL client who are in the BI industry, so they deal with very specific analytics for certain tailored sectors. That person went through the pain that we just described. They lost their in-house marketing manager. All that knowledge went straight out of the door, and they were at a crossroads. "What do I do, do I take a risk, go to market, bring somebody in? Or do I explore," they were already working with GEL, "maybe expanding our remit?" And following a few conversations, they made the choice that they wanted to expand our remit. There's one point of contact. They already know us, they know the level of work that we're doing. They don't have to onboard anyone new into the process. So actually that was the right choice for them, and that's still an ongoing client with that increased remit, so-
Sophie Harflett (11:23):
So we just sort of filled the gap and, yeah, that relationship was ongoing. It's, yeah, really great results.
Stacey Wilson (11:27):
And then we've got, you know, I've got another, over a six-year period, we work with a furniture retailer, e-commerce clients, and actually we started just doing consultancy for that client. So actually we did auditing, we did data analytics, and we basically pointed and told them where to shoot. So we worked alongside, as a true extension of that client's marketing team, but we weren't doing all of the channel optimization and the work. Over time, some of our insights identified some, you know, opportunities, and then they entrusted us to take on that particular area of their marketing. We were engaged in other areas and actually at the end helped them recruit their in-house role. So we went full circle with that client, so-
Sophie Harflett (12:07):
Helped them expand their in-house team.
Stacey Wilson (12:09):
Yeah, because actually they're at a point where they're, you know, expanding and growing so quickly. They want that in-house retention, they want that team, they want that culture and workforce. And, you know, we'll always have a place, but ultimately that's the decision that was made. So we've been supportive through that process and helped them come out the other side and recruit that in-house team member.
Sophie Harflett (12:28):
Amazing. So it's really a case of sort of just keeping their best interests.
Stacey Wilson (12:33):
Yeah.
Sophie Harflett (12:34):
'Cause that sort of supports our best interests at the same time.
Stacey Wilson (12:37):
All we can ever do is be honest, I think. And if we take our like most honest self forward, and we are open and transparent with clients, then something will come good. That will turn into a referral, you know, maybe into another business. They might land somewhere else. You never know where someone's gonna end up in the future. And I think we're really fortunate at GEL, with that referral network, and people coming back and knocking the door again. So yeah, I think that we can only keep doing great things, and clients will always make their decisions based on what's right for them at the time. Agencies will never be right for everybody. But for the ones that are, I think we're here, and we're willing to chat.
Sophie Harflett (13:15):
And that's what makes it GEL.
Stacey Wilson (13:16):
It is.
Sophie Harflett (13:18):
Amazing, well, I think that's a great place to stop the conversation there. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been really insightful to sort of hear your thoughts and learn a bit more about some of our clients as well. So yeah, thank you very much.
Stacey Wilson (13:27):
Great, thank you, Soph.
Sophie Harflett (13:29):
Thank you. Thank you so much for watching. If you'd like to see more "What Makes It GEL," please don't forget to like and subscribe.
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